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HELP!

  • Feb. 28th, 2006 at 12:09 AM
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I need help! I need to gather some information for the article I'm writing, so if you could take this poll for me I will love you forever. Please fill it out and pimp it! The more the merrier, and also the more accurate. Thank you so much!

*Also, I know I missed a period on the first option of the 5th question. I'm sorry... please pretend it's there.
*After you've finished the poll, I have a follow-up answer sheet and rule explanation post. Please do not look at the answers until after you have completed the poll. Thank you!

Poll #681583 Grammar Grief: Semicolon cancer...
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All

Do you know how to properly use a semicolon?

View Answers

Yes
175 (79.2%)

No
46 (20.8%)

Which is correct?

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Man proposes: God disposes.
4 (1.8%)

Man proposes, God disposes.
83 (36.9%)

Man proposes; God disposes.
138 (61.3%)

Which is correct?

View Answers

I remember when he couldn't write his own name on a gate; now he's the president.
66 (29.5%)

I remember when he couldn't write his own name on a gate; now, he's the president.
123 (54.9%)

I remember when he couldnt write his own name on a gate: now he's the president.
3 (1.3%)

I remember when he couldn't write his own name on a gate, now he's the president.
32 (14.3%)

Assuming Tom locked himself in the shed because of the loss, which sentence is grammatically correct?

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Tom locked himself in the shed; England lost to Argentina.
67 (29.9%)

Tom locked himself in the shed: England lost to Argentina.
143 (63.8%)

Tom locked himself in the shed, England lost to Argentina.
14 (6.2%)

Which is correct?

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Mary Shelley's works are engaging; they are full of interesting ideas
140 (62.2%)

Mary Shelley's works are engaging: they are full of interesting ideas.
53 (23.6%)

Mary Shelley's works are engaging, they are full of interesting ideas.
32 (14.2%)

Which is correct?

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I never met the woman, however, I think she might be a whore.
20 (8.9%)

I never met the woman. However, I think she might be a whore.
99 (44.2%)

I never met the woman; however, I think she might be a whore.
105 (46.9%)

Which is correct?

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The first topic was "How to Swing Dance"; the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face."
52 (23.3%)

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance;" the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face."
44 (19.7%)

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance"; the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face".
25 (11.2%)

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance", the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face."
12 (5.4%)

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance," the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face."
58 (26.0%)

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance", the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face".
32 (14.3%)

Which is correct?

View Answers

Fares were offered to Corfu, the Greek Island, Morocco, Elba, in the Mediterranean, and Paris. Margaret thought about it. She had been to Elba once and had found it dull, to Morocco, and found it too colorful.
9 (4.0%)

Fares were offered to Corfu, the Greek island; Morocco; Elba, in the Mediterranean; and Paris. Margaret thought about it, she had been to Elba once and found it dull, to Morocco and found it too colorful.
31 (13.8%)

Fares were offered to Corfu - the Greek island, Morocco, Elba - in the Mediterranean, and Paris. Margaret thought about it. She had been to Elba once and had found it dull; to Morocco, and found it too colorful.
48 (21.4%)

Fares were offered to Corfu, the Greek island; Morocco; Elba, in the Mediterranean; and Paris. Margaret thought about it. She had been to Elba once and had found it dull; to Morocco, and found it too colorful.
136 (60.7%)

Does your head hurt?

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Yes.
130 (57.8%)

Nah, this is a piece of cake.
95 (42.2%)

Last one, which one is correct?

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I hate this; grammar is not my thing.
113 (50.7%)

I hate this, grammar is not my thing.
19 (8.5%)

I hate this: grammar is not my thing.
24 (10.8%)

Fuck you, Shelby.
67 (30.0%)

For the sake of data... how old are you?

View Answers

Under 18
40 (17.8%)

18-25
136 (60.4%)

25-30
28 (12.4%)

30-35
12 (5.3%)

Over 35
9 (4.0%)




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Comments

[info]orangedust wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 12:14 pm (UTC)
Sorry muffins
I know I'd usually try to help with grammatical needs and that kinda thang
But my use of the award winning semicolon is kinda bleak at best

Terribly sorry, all the best, miss

- cal
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 06:42 pm (UTC)
Oh it's all good. Thank you, doll!
[info]sbryan wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 02:11 pm (UTC)
Yikes.

Of all grammar, punctuation use is probably my least favorite to obsess about, since I can usually come up with a way to avoid whatever punctuation I'm unsure of by just changing the words, and it usually sounds better that way anyway. But, me and the semi-colon usually get along. The elba one kinda blew my mind, but I don't think I was too terribly far off in the other ones. If I was though...maybe I need some help. At life. (Semi-colon there? Tee hee.)
[info]urkadur wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 02:19 pm (UTC)
Dear, your first question splits an infinitive.
[info]lightofmine wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 05:41 pm (UTC)
ha! i like you.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with that; although, I know it is often avoided. Still, it's not grammatically incorrect if you want to place stress on the adverb, and I definitely did. Strunk and White agree with me.

[info]potatofishy wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 09:59 pm (UTC)
I take a bit of issue with your use of a comma after "although."
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:19 am (UTC)
I'm not claiming to be perfect. I know I'm not, and I'm not even remotely as alert as I should be in my el jay. I'm just doing research.

I do think "although" is kind of a weird word to deal with, because while it's a conjunction, it's a variant of "also" which is considered a conjuntive adverb.
[info]blyssfulchaos wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 04:17 pm (UTC)
that was an awful lot of shooting in the dark for me. thanks for reminding me that i was smart to avoid an english major.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 06:35 pm (UTC)
It's a hard little quiz. If I hadn't been staring at the rules for semicolon and colon usage for an hour beforehand (and it also helps that I put the quiz together...) I don't think I would've done well either.
[info]nickeldeuce wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 09:14 pm (UTC)
I'm... pretty sure I didn't do very well on this poll. Lmao ^_^;;;
[info]newbia wrote:
Feb. 28th, 2006 10:45 pm (UTC)
Ooooh, cool! I'm totally puncuation-crazy; for me, adding a comma or a dash COMPLETELY changes the meaning and tone of the sentence. I'm really sensitive about it.

"I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again." -- Oscar Wilde
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:20 am (UTC)
I agree. I like the sense of rhythm different punctuation marks carry with them.
[info]guinevere33 wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:18 am (UTC)
I never met the woman. However, I think she might be a whore.

If you really want to nitpick, "however" should not be used to start an independent clause. It's a silly and archaic rule, but I had a Greek mythology professor who was DEATH on anyone who violated it. (It was so hard to remember that after finishing each of my essays, I had to do a global search for the word "however" just to double-check each instance.) According to him, the sentiment should be expressed thusly, with or without semicolon:

I never met the woman. I think, however, that she might be a whore.

Hopefully, the OED has struck down this nonsense, much as they have the bans on split infinitives and starting sentences with "hopefully" ;)
[info]guinevere33 wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:26 am (UTC)
*edited because I forgot a >*
I'm also really curious about the right answer to this one:

The first topic was "How to Swing Dance"; the second was "How to Not Fall on Your Face."

That's the option I picked, just because I can't *stand* to put anything other than a comma or a period inside quotation marks, but hate to sit either of those outside of them. I can't tell if this is a random preference or if it was drilled into me by some long-ago English teaher. Also, I'm pretty sure the rules for British and American English differ on the inside/outside stuff, and I can't remember which is which.
[info]anne_jumps wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 01:24 am (UTC)
Re: *edited because I forgot a >*
I picked that one too.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:47 am (UTC)
Re: *edited because I forgot a >*
Well, that's the right answer.

Colons and semicolons don't go inside quotation marks. They're the exception.

... I can't *stand* to put anything other than a comma or a period inside quotation marks...
Do you not put question marks and/or exclamation points inside quotes?
[info]guinevere33 wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:59 am (UTC)
Re: *edited because I forgot a >*
Generally not. I feel like that makes them look as though they're associated with the quoted phrase, which might change its meaning:

Did his email say "Just kiss the girl?", versus
Did his email say "Just kiss the girl"?

Commas and periods are pretty neutral, though, so I feel like tacking them on doesn't alter the sentence much. :: shrug :: Call me grammatically incorrect in the name of clarity.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 06:46 am (UTC)
Re: *edited because I forgot a >*
I've done the same thing before. XD
[info]elbales wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:42 am (UTC)
Question marks and exclamation points are a little more flexible.
Your example is exactly right. In general, though, the question mark goes outside only if it specifically doesn't belong to the quotation. In your example, it doesn't. But when the quotation is a question, the mark has to go inside. So:

She asked, "When does the next train arrive?"
vs.
Did his email say "Just kiss the girl"?

Likewise:

"He's dead, Jim!" McCoy exclaimed.
vs.
I can't believe you think it's not rude to say "Bollocks"!


Sorry, couldn't help it. I teach grammar. It's a compulsion.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:27 am (UTC)
I had a lot of professors that would kill you if it started a sentence, but if it was after a semicolon, they'd accept it.

It's actually in debate with the grammar folk. Strunk and White agree with your professor, but Diana Hacker and my copyediting book list "however" as a conjunctive adverb.
[info]particle_person wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:18 am (UTC)
Would you do a followup entry on the rules and your application of them to the questions? Pretty please?
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:28 am (UTC)
Sure. I'll also include where I got the examples from. I think it's obvious that I edited the wording a bit though, hah.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:36 pm (UTC)
I wrote the follow-up entry as requested. Thanks again for taking this quiz/poll. :)
[info]bohemian1 wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
Let's give a big hand to the California Public School System's failure to give an understanding of grammar to its students. Thanks for making this poll, though. It's going to prompt me to read my copy of Strunk and White again.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:31 am (UTC)
I haven't even read mine, but in creating this poll I found out that I really need to again. I got a lot of the examples from my copyediting book and from Eats, Shoots, & Leaves. In fact, the first question and the list one is straight out of the latter.
[info]theweaselking wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 01:25 am (UTC)
It helps a little if you aren't taking most of your examples right out of Strunk and White.

(You've also got multiple correct possibilities in some of those; I assumed you knew that, and simply chose the way I would be most likely to write it.)
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:34 am (UTC)
I actually took three of them out of Eats, Shoots, & Leaves and two others out of my copyediting book. Only one is out of Strunk & White.
[info]theweaselking wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 04:11 am (UTC)
Both "Man Proposes" and "Mary Shelley" are right out of Strunk & White. There's also a near-identical example to Tom And The Shed.

(Yes, I did look it up to be sure. I can use a semicolon correctly, but I'm much more likely to avoid it in any ambiguous sense. This makes it hard for me to tell for certain if any given use is correct.)
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 06:43 am (UTC)
Man proposes is out of Eats, Shoots & Leaves. Strunk opts for the comma usage, I employ the colon because of the rule of opposition. With parallel phrases that are in opposition or direct comparison... it should be a colon. p. 119
[info]bunnymonkey wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 02:16 am (UTC)
Agreeing with what a couple of others have pointed out -- you have multiple correct answers going on. Any particular reason why?
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:36 am (UTC)
I really just edited some examples, because I didn't trust myself to not screw up the "right" answer.

Which ones specifically do you have questions on, because the reasons are different.

I'll be making a follow-up post explaining where I got the example from, why I chose them, and what rule applies.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:35 pm (UTC)
[info]greyduck wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 03:39 am (UTC)
Er, wow.

Looking back, I'm sure I already screwed up one of them, and maybe one or two others. Oh well. (I went with the comma inside the quotation marks, but it was a title instead of dialogue, and... damn me, I'm not enough of a grammar geek to know for certain if that's a no-no or not.) The Morocco one, though? That one alone made my head hurt. I'm curious to know the "correct" answers, indeed.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:34 pm (UTC)
I made the requested answer sheet. :)
[info]elbales wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:44 am (UTC)
Directed here by <lj user="cleolinda">
You know, I answered the last one correctly, but I don't hate grammar. I just couldn't bring myself to swear at you... so I lied. Currrrrses. *weeps*

This was fun. Good luck with your article.
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 09:25 am (UTC)
Re: Directed here by <lj user="cleolinda">
Awww, thank you!

I don't hate grammar either, I just figured that most people would like a good outlet for frustration, and I was willing to bear the brunt of it.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks loads!
[info]revelationsofme wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:30 pm (UTC)
whoa! I suck! *hides*
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:33 pm (UTC)
[info]eruvadhril wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 12:44 pm (UTC)
Eats, Shoots and Leaves is a brilliant book :D
[info]virtuistic wrote:
Mar. 1st, 2006 07:31 pm (UTC)
Agreed! I want to marry Lynne Truss.

Have you read her new book? I picked it up but haven't gotten to it yet.
[info]eruvadhril wrote:
Mar. 5th, 2006 02:14 am (UTC)
Talk To The Hand? Yeah, I read that. It was good as well.
[info]meamcat wrote:
Mar. 6th, 2006 05:12 am (UTC)
I was directed here from Cleo, if you're curious.

Ack, I'm absolutely terrible(and I love Strunk and White!).
*shrug* At least I've learned something. Also, now I can irritate all of my grammar-loving friends.

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